tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post621065533221374644..comments2024-03-21T12:52:08.166+11:00Comments on Freedom and Flourishing: Is Maslow's hierarchy of needs a pernicious doctrine?Winton Bateshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-67114853252927983812011-10-19T09:43:03.359+11:002011-10-19T09:43:03.359+11:00Xerographica: Pragmatarianism is a very interestin...Xerographica: Pragmatarianism is a very interesting idea. Good luck with it!Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-50912500086473588462011-10-18T20:50:04.238+11:002011-10-18T20:50:04.238+11:00I have a hard time seeing how Maslow's Hierarc...I have a hard time seeing how Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (MHN) could be considered pernicious...and, unlike Nicola, I never considered it to have anything to with wealth accumulation. <br /><br />There are so many examples of self-actualized people who had very little material wealth...Jesus, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, a gazillion artists, writers, philosophers, etc. <br /><br />MHN is one of the psychological terms that stuck with me all these years since my one psychology class at University. Other terms I remember and reference on occasion are locus of control, self-efficacy, Freud's defense mechanisms (especially sublimation) and probably a few more I'd remember with some context.<br /><br />Recently I've been advocating for a system where donations to government organizations (GOs) would be 100% tax deductible (pragmatarianism). The most common response has by far been that some GO would be underfunded...which just reflects that most people have no idea how the invisible hand works. <br /><br />But it's interesting when people predict that defense and/or public healthcare would be "underfunded". Their predictions reminded me of MHN...so it was a neat coincidence to run across a libertarian blog with an entry on MHN. <br /><br />How could MHN be applied to pragmatarianism? Would anybody familiar with MHN ever predict that defense would be "underfunded"? Of course, when the supply for a public good meets the demand for a public good then we could never say that a public good was over/underfunded. The amount of money a GO received would accurately reflect how much society valued the public good produced by that GO.<br /><br />Logistically, each GO website would have a progress fundraising bar. If somebody wanted to pay their taxes...could MHN predict the order in which they visited the various GO websites? Would they start at the DOD website and work their way towards the National Endowment for the Arts website?Xerographicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14978832439622230018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-59796582900063594222011-10-06T07:27:16.978+11:002011-10-06T07:27:16.978+11:00Nicola: I am enjoying this discussion.
While I ag...Nicola: I am enjoying this discussion. <br />While I agree with a lot of your criticisms of Maslow's theory, I still don't think it is pernicious.<br />What is it that would make a theory pernicious? It seems to me that the first step would be to show that the theory is false. We can say that the theory once held by many medical practicioners that smoking is good for health is pernicious because it is false as well as potentially damaging to the health of the people who believe it to be true.<br />In the case of Maslow's theory the basic idea that people tend to move on to satisfy other needs after satisfying basic physiological needs has not been disproved. Recent studies by psychologists and sociologists actually tend to provide support for the theory.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-80773263514339828982011-10-05T20:52:05.234+11:002011-10-05T20:52:05.234+11:00Hi Winton,
It is very easy to get the idea that M...Hi Winton,<br /><br />It is very easy to get the idea that Maslow's Theory has the potential to imply that a person's accumulation of wealth is linked to the realization of their full potential. <br /><br />Maslow's basic proposal is that individuals prioritize their needs, moving with increasing incomes to satisfy safety and social needs, finally through to self-actualization. This is so clearly linked to the accumulation of wealth. Once the basic needs are met, the next stage is safety. A key aspect of this is economic safety. How can you say this is not about wealth accumulation? Also the stages that follow are about the need for prestige and status, which so often in our society is linked, to employment status and income. <br /><br />Maslow's Theory implies the notion that individuals move up the hierarchy of needs in line with their changes or increases in income. Needs of shelter and food can only satisfied sufficient income, and as income increases then individuals have the opportunity to obtain the next hierarchy of need.<br /><br />A key problem that a lot of theorists have pointed to with Maslow's Theory is the narrow concentration on the personal growth of the individual. Surely the personal relationships are as important?<br /><br />I guess my central problem with Maslow is why do we need his theory. What does it add to our understandings of the world? Why should our needs be placed in a hierarchy? As I said before it is simplistic and vague and, in my opinion, serves no purpose apart from providing management consultants with pretty diagrams.Nicola Moirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03694465554864338497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-82398876204268697092011-10-05T07:31:49.984+11:002011-10-05T07:31:49.984+11:00Thanks Nicola. Your comment has made me think a li...Thanks Nicola. Your comment has made me think a little more about this issue.<br />I find it hard to see how anyone could get the idea from Maslow’s hierarchy of needs that wealth accumulation is linked to realization of their full potential. It would be hard for anyone to argue that they need a great deal of wealth to satisfy their physiological needs. People with great wealth often don’t even get a great deal of esteem these days. I remember that when I first heard of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs it was from a management consultant telling us – a group of economists in management positions – that we shouldn’t assume that the people working for us were all seeking high pecuniary rewards (as assumed in standard economics text books). She was trying to tell us that the people working for us would probably want to feel that they were doing something worthwhile, were a valued member of a team, wanted some influence over the way work they did their work and when they did it, and usually had families that they wanted to spend some time with. She was right about all that – and I still think that is the message that most people would take from Maslow.<br />I don’t agree with you that wealth accumulation is the core motivator that destroys community. I think the core motivator (or non-motivator?) that destroys community is probably the feeling that nothing an individual can do makes any difference. <br />There is a fair amount of evidence that a desire for wealth is usually bad for the individuals concerned and I expect for their families too. At a community level, however, I don’t think it matters too much whether people are motivated by a desire to accumulate wealth or more noble desires – the invisible hand of the market still works its magic to ensure that their actions are mutually beneficial. People who are motivated by wealth accumulation could even be motivated to do voluntary work because it may be good for business to have a reputation for helping the community. <br />A few weeks ago I posted some research findings <a href="http://wintonbates.blogspot.com/2011/09/do-you-have-to-be-goody-goody-to.html" rel="nofollow">(here)</a> which suggests that people who identify with the proposition, ‘it is important for this person to be rich’ tend also to identify more strongly than average with helping other people. It seems that people who identify strongly with just about any proposition about the importance of a particular value in their own lives tend to identify strongly with helping other people.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-15699099470762563902011-10-04T20:59:56.472+11:002011-10-04T20:59:56.472+11:00I enjoyed your post. I remember studying Maslow...I enjoyed your post. I remember studying Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs at Uni. At the time I never really saw the point to it, as it was so vague and simplistic. Yet, on reflection it could be interpreted as a pernicious doctrine, as has the potential to imply that a person’s accumulation of wealth is linked to the realization of their full potential. As a society we need to move away from this connection between the accumulation of capital and fulfillment, as it is the core motivator that destroys community.Nicola Moirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03694465554864338497noreply@blogger.com